护套和刚性泡沫之间的排水平面
我正在研究位于威斯康星州的一个加法项目。我的计划是使用Huber Engineering拉链墙护套。
In reviewing Zip walls installation instructions, I noticed that Zip calls for a minimum eighth of an inch drainage plane between the rigid foam and the sheathing. In my wall section I planned to include a drainage plain (rain screen) on the outside of the 3 inches of rigid foam.
Will the recommended Zip wall drainage plane reduce the effectiveness of my foam insulation?
This is not a typical detail in conventional wall sections using traditional OSB sheathing. Let me know if anyone has any tips. Thanks
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Replies
杰森，
good question
Kudos to you for reading the instructions.
Please don't listen to anyone who tells you to "have at it" without reading the instructions.
杰森，
this comment from John Straube .......
似乎与您的问题有关
Here is a good paper "mind the Gap"
http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/insights/bsi-038-mind-the-gap-eh/files/bsi-038_complex_mind_the_gap.pdf
Jason处于编辑模式。...什么是壁板？
As is posted below, apparently there is some new thinking. I defer at this point. Two contractor friends in my area have used two layers of taped foil faced foam over CDX for decades successfully. In our cold climate there may be more than one way to detail this it seems.
Interesting post Brooks.
...Context for my post
约翰，谈到细节，您发布的细节永远不会由我构建。当用泡沫外出时，可以详细介绍所有六个侧面。邮政编码不得对基础细节进行邮政编码。
如果您想真正帮助约翰，请绘制该细节完成。
The siding will be LP composite siding, not stucco.
杰森，your siding most likely has a detail that they desire. The first attempt at LP siding was crap if used where moisture gets into siding. Huge failures and lawsuits enough to keep the lawyers happy.
据说新的东西更好。如果是我，我只会在壁板之间进行下雨屏幕。将泡沫放在两个胶带层中。使用足够的泡沫停止拉链内部的冷凝。详细说明您的石膏板密封。
Send off a fax to Huber and get final approval from them if you need their warranty. If they still want the rain screen to protect the Zip instead of protecting the LP, then I guess you should do as told to pass the buck on to their warranty.
我可以编辑这本约翰，以便在我之前快速获取屏幕捕获图像。
Just googled LP siding... now name "Smart Siding" Marketers for years turn what you read, called spin... so what is the opposite of smart? Stupid! Hardboard siding has been a nightmare. Just thought I would post this search.
If you look in the search there is a PDF for how to install the siding. It looks older than grandma as I have seen those details since hippies were real hippies. I don't think Joe L, of Straube would approve.
http://www.google.com/webhp?rlz=1C1RNCN_enUS342US378&sourceid=chrome-instant&ie=UTF-8&ion=1#sclient=psy&hl=en&rlz=1C1RNCN_enUS342US378&site=webhp&q=lp%20siding%20specs&aq=&aqi=&aql=&oq=&pbx=1＆fp = FCA90E9507624F80＆FP = FCA90E9507624F80＆ion = 1
I think AJ and John are saying nearly the same thing. Sounds like no need for an air gap between sheathing and foam. Further, that rain screen is a good idea between siding and foam.
Anonymous先生并不真正清楚您要添加的讨论，请澄清。
杰森，
Did you read "mind the Gap"?
If you decide to use ZIP with outsulation... I think that you should follow their instructions and provide a gap. BETWEEN ZIP AND FOAM
Brooks I disagree. His fail point is the crummy LP siding. It needs to dry so it doesn't disintegrate.
我没有说不要为壁板通风。
See page 7 of the article, section Foam Sheathing Used with OSB Sheathing. If I am reading that section correctly it states that a gap between the cladding and foam is necessary. Also it states that very little moisture will occur on the outside of the OSB. Further, if the wall cavity insulation is vapor open and there is no internal vapor barrier, then the OSB can dry to the interior. I took that to mean that I don't need a second air gap between the OSB and foam.
就我而言，我计划使用带有蒸气屏障的纤维素腔绝缘。
If I were to use closed cell foam insulation in my wall cavity I would then need two gaps one at the outside of the sheathing and another at the outside of the foam.
AJ,
Your posts are EXTREMELY frustrating to read. I usually just skip over them but you are posting so frequently I have to read them in order to understand the thread.
PLEASE follow Martin's advice and sloooooooooooow down.
杰森，do not follow AJ's advice. He is wrong.
Huber拉链屋顶和墙壁护套结合了一个产品中的结构面板和耐候性屏障（WRB）。如果您打算将拉链护套作为WRB，您应该使用（我认为如果不这样做，Huber将无效保修）提供排水平面（允许排水的空间）在护套和外部泡沫之间。这样做将降低护套和泡沫之间的静水压力。约翰·布鲁克斯（John Brooks）指出的BSC文章在解释这一点上做得很好。
There are a few housewraps that will provide the 1/8-inch gap: Tyvek Drainwrap, Weather Trek dimpled housewrap, and Greengaurd Raindrop housewrap. However, using these products make the WRB system of the Zip panels pointless. If I were building the home, I would get rid of the ZIPs and use OSB (plywood would be better) sheathing with taped joints to achieve the air barrier, and one of the above listed housewraps as my WRB.
对于您的问题，您的差距降低了泡沫护套的有效性 - 乔博士在同一“思维差距”文章中解释了这一点：约翰提到：
"But won’t the tiny gap cause a loss of thermal performance of the foam sheathing? Yes. How much? About 5 percent of the thermal performance of the foam sheathing (not the entire wall assembly) with the 1/8-inch gap, less with a smaller gap. With “crinkly” stuff (draining housewraps) you loose next to nothing. Is it worth it? Yes, in my opinion, the loss in thermal performance is trivial compared to the reduced risk and improved durability."
Brett, very good post except for when you whack at me (relax, just kidding bro)
Will adding the space behind foam be a good thing? That I do not know.
Will two layers of well fitted taped foam work if fitted tight in a cold climate? Yes. We locally have built hundreds this way for decades. That is why I come to my conclusion.
Building tighter homes with new details is certainly getting to ice cream headache land. This has been an interesting thread.
就像布雷特（Brett）所说的泡沫层一样，不需要拉链蒸气屏障。对我来说，拉链是被乙烯基壁板以及内部使用的玻璃纤维棒覆盖的。（数以百万计的开发项目中发现的标准房屋构建）在这种情况下，Zip是一个很棒的产品。
I bring up this old thread to point out something. While I have seen this same 1/8" recommended by Huber for their zip product, I also see a detail NOT requiring it. It is detail "K-10 Zip System Typical Wall Detail with exterior foam insulation". It also says in the pdf heading... NO GAP so ?? It would be nice if they would make their mind up.
There's a difference depending on how the windows & window flashing are installed.
如果这是一个“外”窗口,飞机啊f the glass is roughly co-planar with the siding, the flashing drains out to the exterior of the foam (which would also want some sort of housewrap, properly lapped to the flashing if the foam itself can't be detailed as a code-legal weather resistant barrier) In that type of installation no gap is necessary between the ZIP and foam.
如果这是一个“innie”窗口,在我的玻璃s rougly co-planar with the ZIP, the flashing drains onto the ZIP, some amount of space is necessary to allow gravity to do it's work on liquid water. A gap of 1/8" seems excessive, but may be necessary to avoid water droplets spanning the gap, clinging to both the foam & ZIP.
Tyvek Drainwrap之类的产品会皱纹以允许微小的排水通道，但是这些皱纹/通道的深度很小，小于1/32”。但是，房屋包的表面可能不允许与您相同的表面张紧固定。将与聚苯乙烯或箔面脸和/或拉链的最终抗气表面。
Bottom line, they can have it both ways, but perhaps need to spell out in larger fonts when the gap is necessary and when it isn't. Note the check mark in the lower right corner where it says: " Outie mounted flanged window"
http://www.huberwood.com/assets/user/library/K-10-FoamNoGapISO_JPEG_(.jpg
他们还需要对任何腔腔的缝隙中的缝隙，在腔体中具有闭合泡沫绝缘材料和外部刚性泡沫，因为邮政编码的任何方向都没有任何方向的干燥能力：
http://www.huberwood.com/assets/user/library/K-12-FoamWithGapISO_JPEG.jpg
Any new information on the question of gap or no gap when installing exterior foam directly over ZIP sheathing? Dana's update two years ago points out the critical issue of window flashing in determining the question. It does seem completely redundant to spend the money on ZIP and THEN have to put in a housewrap anyway. I'm going with ZIP as the cheapest and surest approach to both air barrier and WRB (once you count labor costs...) Belt-and-suspenders approach could lead to essentially four WRBs; ZIP, crinkle, foam, housewrap. If anyone has opinions or a tried-and-true practical approach, would appreciate hearing about it.
Andy,
我看不出您需要在拉链护套和外部刚性泡沫之间安装Crinkle包装的任何理由。当然，如本文所述，泡沫必须足够厚，以使冬季的拉链在露点上方。Calculating the Minimum Thickness of Rigid Foam Sheathing.
更多的over, if you want to use the Zip sheathing as your WRB, remember that all of your window flashing and door flashing has to be integrated with the surface of the Zip sheathing. Think every step through carefully to determine whether this will be easy -- how easy it is depends on where and how your windows will be mounted.
-- Martin Holladay
If you look closely you will find Huber provides 2 very different drawing one for walls with interior vapor retarder (barrier) with the drainage channel (vent).
Any wall with 2 vapor barriers is a recipe rot and water damage.
请查看我突出显示的两张照片。
Walta
Walter,
The Zip System advice is consistent with everything we've always said here at GBA: If you install rigid foam on the exterior side of the sheathing, you don't want an interior vapor barrier.
The crinkly wrap is necessary if someone specifies closed-cell spray foam between the studs. But it's much better to avoid the problem in the first place by specifying cellulose or mineral wool between the studs.
-- Martin Holladay