Proposed recycled polyiso wall insulation question
对所有人来说，
我正在改造位于罗切斯特纽约的老房子，气候区是4和5个海洋。外部覆盖在安装在展开的3/8“箔面对的EPS上安装的乙烯基壁板覆盖，覆盖弯曲的雪松壁板。我已经拆除了内部并暴露了2“x 4”壁腔，并且希望在此时提供空气屏障而不会在不去除外部。我提出了一系列：
Drywall over 2″ wood horizontal strapping ( paper faced Iso or XPS between strapping as a thermal break to the exterior studs), OSB plywood glued and nailed to the inside face of studs for structural stability ( the house creaks a lot in our high winds), 2″ x 4″ wall cavity with 3” or the combination of 1 ½ and 2” paper faced ISO foam boards to equal a 3 ½” paper faced ISO, ¾” T& G sheathing, tar paper, beveled cedar siding, 3/8″ foil faced EPS, vinyl siding.
**另一种替代方案是第二内部3½“墙壁在现有墙壁前面交错而不是水平捆扎，在现有墙壁内部的一层XPS（尽管仍然在PLWO.上述原因中仍然护套）。
In the future I would like to remove the vinyl to be able to remove the beveled cedar siding and install a 1” continuous layer of foam insulation, unfaced or paper faced, no foil, and then a good house wrap in order to detail the windows and flashing that are now non-existent .
对该部分和建议的任何审查都会得到很大欣赏。
谢谢,
John
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答复
I don't quite understand the proposed stackup. It sounds like you currently have:
在户外|漂亮的壁板|3/8铝箔EPS |雪松壁板|（＃15感觉到？）|（护套？）|纤维绝缘2x4壁......
......你想添加
。。。|1/2" OSB or plywood | 1.5-2" polyiso | 1x2 strapping | wallboard
是的，不，别的东西？
在一些网格上穿孔的eps上的铝箔面孔是否是厨房箔，或者它们是厨房箔的光滑和镜像吗？
I don't quite understand the proposed stackup. It sounds like you currently have:
在户外|漂亮的壁板|3/8铝箔EPS |雪松壁板|（＃15感觉到？）|（护套？）|fiber insulated 2x4 wall.
上面虽然此时腔内没有玻璃纤维是正确的。
WOULD LIKE TO ADD INTO THE CAVITY:
2“x 4”墙腔3英寸或1/2和2“纸张面对ISO泡沫板的组合等于3½”纸张面对ISO
......你想添加
。。。|1/2" OSB or plywood | 1.5-2" polyiso | 1x2 strapping | wallboard
是的，不，别的东西？
在一些网格上穿孔的eps上的铝箔面孔是否是厨房箔，或者它们是厨房箔的光滑和镜像吗？
RECYCLED POLYISO IS SAID TO HAVE A PAPER FACE.
I WAS GOING TO FLASH AND BATT BUT THE SPRAY FOAM COSTAT 1/2" IS $.50/ SF
HOPEFULLY ANSWERED YOUR QUESTION??
THANKS
Read more://m.etiketa4.com/community/forum/green-building-techniques/99062/proposed-recycled-iso-wall-insulation-section-questi#ixzz4OgF6kuaR
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......你想添加
。。。|1/2" OSB or plywood | 1.5-2" polyiso | 1x2 strapping | wallboard
是的。
"The exterior is covered in vinyl siding installed over unfolded 3/8" foil faced EPS..."
So, is the foil faced EPS perforated or not? (It matters, maybe a lot!)
existing 3/8" eps is double foil faced and NOT perforated
最佳练习的气候是充足的外部绝缘（不是一种选择）和/或5：1外部：内部烫发比率而不会产生水分陷阱。Intello Plus应该让你最接近后者。
Other things that help are very good air sealing, low interior humidity during cold weather, cellulose fill and making sure that no room gets positively pressurized.
Jon,
如果将3/8箔面向外部泡沫被移除并取代1“未漂流的泡沫（EPS / XPS）和一层建筑物包装，可以忘记Intello Plus（AM预算限制并希望如果可能使用重用材料），最初的拟议部分可以吗？
约翰，
Rochester, NY is in Climate Zone 5. It is nowhere near the border of Climate Zone 4 Marine.
In that zone, a 2x4 wall with exterior foil-faced rigid foam will get into trouble unless the rigid foam has a minimum R-value of R-5. So the foil-faced 3/8-inch EPS is dangerous.
Step one with this wall would be removing the vinyl siding so that you can beef up the R-value of the rigid foam layer.
For more information on this issue, seeCalculating the Minimum Thickness of Rigid Foam Sheathing。
Unless you're going to strip the foil faced EPS out the wall stackup has to be designed to dry toward the interior, since each foil facer is less than 0.05 perms, with low/no reliable drying path toward the exterior.
Fiber faced polyiso is typically less than 1 perm, and if you're stacking up 5-6" of it even the polyiso itself will be less than 1 perm (even if you peeled the facers), which would compromise drying path from the sheathing toward the interior. If there were sufficient exterior R for dew point control at the sheathing, and you were diligent about air sealing it would be fairly low risk, but with only 3/8" EPS (R1.5-ish) on the exterior it means the sheathing will have a very low average wintertime temperature, and would tend to hang on to too much moisture.
The safest thing (and perhaps the easiest) would be to pull the siding now, get rid of the foil facers, and put the 1.5-2" of reclaimed polyiso on the exterior. You would then have the opportunity to inspect (and correct if necessary) the window & door flashing details, and better air-seal the structural sheathing. With even 1.5" of exterior polyiso you would have sufficient dew point control at the sheathing for an interior-drying stackup, and it would then be relatively safe to cut'n'cobble low permeance foam in the stud cavities if you chose to, but the boost in thermal performance of filling the cavities with polyiso instead of R13-R15 fiberglass or rock wool is tiny (about R1 "whole wall" after factoring in the thermal bridging of the framing), and the installation labor difference would be large.
因此，外部泡沫将作为热桥接的止动件，并且不需要在2“x 2”带之间的螺柱内部添加泡沫？
此外，随着外部泡沫正确详细安装，用BLDG包装，您可以或将放弃内部空气密封，例如喷雾闪光或切割的低渗透泡沫，因为它变得多余泡沫？
即使有外部泡沫，您仍然需要/想要空气密封结构护套和室内墙板，但墙板中的小空气泄漏到绝缘腔中将对护套没有湿度后果。
Caulking the sheathing to the framing inside every stud bay with polyurethane caulk (and some can-foam for any bigger holes) can make the sheathing the primary air barrier. Be sure to caulk between doubled-up top plates and where the bottom plate of the studwall meets the subflooring, etc. Pay attention to air sealing the plumbing & electrical penetrations (at every stud, for lateral runs), not just at the electrical boxes. Making the framing & sheathing air tight is far less labor & material than air sealing cut'n'cobbled rigid foam with cases of can-foam & miles of tape.
对所有人来说，
谢谢你的良好建议。
I do have a problem of I have sprayed a portion of a wall ( 20% of wall area) with a 1/2" flash coat of 2 part closed cell foam. I did not like the results ( part my workmanship, part the cost) and was moving toward the cut'n'cobble low permeance foam in the stud cavities as a work around. With the strategy you just explained, can this be rectified by a low permanence foam on the outside or does it become nil in the equation?
Sheathing on this house is 1' x 6" x 3/4" T and G . Caulking all of the seams becomes a lot of caulk, that is why I went to spray foam and then to possibly the cut n cobble.
我过去使用了Denarco垫圈的干墙。只是在寻找最好的价值选择，以便在进入空腔之前停止旧房屋的空气渗透。如果我必须，我可以填充所有的t和g护套，只要在我做的事情之前寻找最好的选择（我的喷雾泡沫来到脑海中）
添加到初始帖子：
更正：这所房子在气候区5。
我试图使用回收的泡沫产品，我没有设置任何类型，ISO / EPS / XPS等，我只是想确保我提出的内容，然后构建不会导致未来任何蒸汽传输问题。
谢谢
闪存的闭孔泡沫以密封T＆G护套螺柱托架将运行约1倍，给予或服用，这足以用于季节性干燥，但足以防止5区的冬季水分驱动器气候。然后，您可以填充剩下的深度R13s（未允许的或牛皮纸，但不是箔），然后推迟外部泡沫，直到您为该项目做好准备。
或者（和更环保），您可以在螺柱托架中安装所有开放式电池泡沫，并在墙板下使用2-MIL尼龙（Certainkeed膜），或在墙板上使用半浸剂“蒸气屏障胶乳”底漆。3.5英寸的开放式电池泡沫具有较少的总聚合物比1“封闭的细胞，它与水而不是HFC245FA（强大的温室气体）吹来，并且它也比闪存英寸的封闭单元更好。
The vapor permeance of the exterior foam hardly matters when the stackup can dry toward the interior- it's all about having sufficient R-value to keep the average wintertime temperature at the sheathing warm enough to not take on moisture from the interior air. With R8-R10 on the exterior you would have PLENTY of dew point margin for a 2x4 wall with fluffy fill (or open cell foam). With 2" of reclaimed roofing polyiso it would be about double the performance of the 2x4 wall with cut'n't cobbled or fiber fill + 3/8" EPS.
您谈到的EPS将是床单或需要喷涂。如果纸张货物，它可以在具有闭孔喷雾泡沫的边缘处密封。由于成本，我仍然试图在整个腔内远离喷涂的近距离电池，因此我正在推动一个切割的空气屏障以降低成本。
切割的透明层泡沫板有多厚，当墙上腔内和抵靠护套时需要充当空气屏障。仍然希望仅仅用闭孔喷雾泡沫作为我的空气屏障，所以我可以使用剩下的内容来密封不规则区域以及地下室中的泥浆窗台。
全部：谢谢你所有非常有用的信息。
The only EPS I'm referring to so far is the pre-existing 3/8" foil faced underlayment mentioned in your first post. I wasn't recommending cut'n' cobbled foam as an air barrier.
假设没有1001个指甲头通过T＆G戳掉，您可以将便宜且合理的空中屏障从＃15中汲取4“更宽4英寸”而不是螺柱托架，然后将其装订到螺柱附近的侧面护套，留下足够的襟翼将其填充到螺柱上，重新装配在填缝的珠子上，使其平坦地钉在螺柱上。这是一项详细的工作，但是如果您正在折扣DIY劳动，那么从现金支出的角度来看，它比闭式电池泡沫更便宜。
Unfaced 1" EPS sealed in place with can-foam could work too, as long as you used 2-mil nylon on the interior. Type-I EPS (1lb density) is pretty easy to break, and is as vapor-open as interior latex, but Type-II (1.5lbs density) would be under 3 perms @ 1" and is a little more rugged for handling. Reclaimed 1" XPS would be about 1-1.5 perms, and a bit more rugged still, and might be the better choice if you're keeping the foil faced EPS on the exterior rather than bumping it up with 1.5-2" polyiso for a rew years. If you compress R13 fiberglass into 2.5" space it delivers about R10, so with 1" of cut'n'cobbled EPS or XPS (R4 or higher) you'd have sufficient dew point control at the foam/fiber boundary to avoid moisture accumulation in the fiber.
Dana,
谢谢for the post, it is becoming much clearer now!!
问题：内部的2 - MIL尼龙，不确定它是什么 - 你能阐述吗？我还将创建一个与水平底板隔热的某种服务腔，在第一篇文章的OSB内部包层的顶部。OSB层（在第1篇文章中描述）以任何方式影响这一提出的墙壁组件吗？
As for the thickness of EPS/ XPS foam in the cavity compressing the batts, I have no problem furring out the wall to keep a 3.5 inch void for the R-15 Batts I now own. Wall thickness is not a problem.
Is there a reason/ need for an interior wrap ( Intello, etc) or any other materials other than:
SR l ?? ?? l batts in service cavity l OSB l batts l EPS/XPS foam or 15 lb felt l 3/4 T and G l Felt l cedar siding l 3/8"Foiled EPS l Vinyl
谢谢again,
John
如果将螺柱边缘发出1“Polyiso条带，则在框架分数上的R值增加，以及R15s的完美深度。
The 2-mil nylon is just a thin plastic sheet that goes directly to the interior side of the batts & studs, under the wallboard. If you added an inch of foam to the stud edges you'll have to use longer nails or screws for the wallboard (or in your case, continous OSB?) but at only 1" of additional depth that's not a big deal. Here's a short info-mercial:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeTS4kQHXQU
如果您正在安装作为空中障碍的连续OSB层（而不是几个剪切面板加强墙壁），您可以跳过纸张尼龙。OSB也是可变渗透蒸汽延迟器，其将允许外部护套朝内部晾干。但是，如果您的绝缘为1.5“深度服务腔也是便宜的保险，可以直接在干墙后面添加一层尼龙板，覆盖服务腔纤维。
我喜欢ISO水垢地带的想法但我需要to furr the studs in wood as I am trying to stiffen house with the OSB. It is also acting as an additional air barrier with the permanence you spoke of, would this 2nd air barrier be a problem within the assembly? Finally, I am building the service cavity on top of this wall for two reasons.
1.)To allow for thicker walls and create deeper window sills and jambs.
2.）能够轻松地用半水平的斑纹轻轻伸直旧波浪和铅墙
墙上的干燥到里面？在这种情况下，2米尔多功能如何工作？
能够在能够时感谢您的建议。