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Insulating septic

James Stufano|发布General Questions

新败血性安装在带5和有人insulated pipe from house to tank with foam board below grade or maybe rockwool comfort board? It is my understanding comfortboard can go below grade and it’s about $60 for 24 feet x 4 feet vs about 16 feet xps foam board for the same price. both are R6 – the reason for doing this is to help prevent freezing and better to do now during install.

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Replies

  1. Expert Member
    Zephyr7||#1

    我从未听说过有人绝缘其化粪池。化粪池由于内部材料的衰减而产生了一些热量,类似于堆肥的内部热量。有了适当的管道音高,我不会期望遇到任何冻结问题。

    我在第5区北部的自己的房子里有一个化粪池系统,在冬天,当地面上只有一点雪或霜冻,坦克在地面上清楚地看到了一个无霜矩形,即使it’s buried a foot or two underground.

    Bill

  2. 燃烧||#2

    I have doubts that fibrous insulation is *worthwhile* below grade, unless very well-drained. Mineral wool wicks moisture well enough to be used as a hydroponics grow medium (see the Grodan and Cultilene blocks). Mineral wool saturated with moisture probably doesn't insulate as well as mineral wool with lots of entrained air. Attempting to entrain air long-term in a poorly drained subsoil with waxes or binders is probably a fool's errand.

    If you want to pursue this, use a high-density EPS. XPS would likely work, but is currently a ridiculous choice from a greenhouse gas perspective (until the next administration bans the blowing agent), and slightly more expensive to boot.

    或者,您可以尝试使用适当的EPDM泡沫管道绝缘套,例如其中的一层或几层:

    https://www.zoro.com/aeroflex-pipe-ins-epdm-4-12-in-id-6-ft-334-ac41212/i/G8641997/

    But before you resort to any of this, consider this:

    https://inspectapedia.com/insulation/R-Value_of_Soil.php

    And consider just burying the pipe and tank deep enough to start with, well below the frost line for your area.

  3. James Stufano||#3

    My architect brought up the idea of insulating since the depth can't be more than a foot or two based on ledge and elevation to home. I am in Northwest CT and the architect pointed out client systems along the warmer shoreline freezing, even though the 1st poster doubts septics can freeze. If a septic system gets regular use it may not be a problem, but freezing occurs if use is low or if there is a slow drip. So if you travel over the deep winter for over a week with no use the freezing can start. The web has numerous articles on this and suggest putting mulch and leaves 8 to 12 inches over the septic in the fall, but I'd prefer to insulate to avoid the annual labor. Other articles suggest 4 inches of foam on the sides and top of pipe from house to tank. Apparently it's a real nightmare if the pipe freezes and there is a whole process to getting it unfrozen. Apparently burying a septic too deep is not good either as it's needs oxygen to work properly

  4. Keith Gustafson||#4

    I personally have never heard of such a thing

    My last house was on piers, the drain pipe was exposed to outside air for 3 feet,a and basically sat on the surface of ledge for 20 feet

    Never froze

    Even if you leave for weeks, the septic tank continues to create heat from decomposition and the area around the pipe is warm from use.

    I think those shoreline homes were up on piers and left for months, perhaps with a leaking faucet

  5. 燃烧||#5

    我将把它作为中间选项放在那里:
    Get a self-regulating heating cable and apply it to your 4" schedule 40 pipe. Apply a 1", R-4 jacket of continuous EPDM pipe insulation. My math says sustaining a 50F temperature difference (taking you down to -23F) across a ~12" circumference at R-4 is about 4 watts per linear foot. If the septic produces enough heat, the tape stays turned off via its internal thermostat. If you only need it for 10% of the year at that 50F difference (or 20% of the year at half of that temperature difference), you're spending around $0.40 of electricity per linear foot per year.

    On the topic of burying septic:
    https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/how-deep-can-septic-be-buried.65111/

    https://inspectapedia.com/septic/Septic_Tank_Design_Depth.php

    1" EPDM for schedule 40 is about $15/linear foot on the site I'm looking at, but as a jacket you're using far less material and labor than you would with trying to apply EPS, and the end result will be more durable.

    Sheet goods might be appropriate for the tank itself, if you're going to bury it under a bare minimum of fill and you're concerned about leaving the house unoccupied for long periods of time.

  6. Expert Member
    阿科斯||#6

    James,

    我有一间小屋,化粪池接近6区的条件。即使在冬季只使用了几周的几个星期,也从来没有遇到化粪池冻结的问题。

    There is short run of the drain near the house that was pretty much at grade, that is insulated with one of those jackets used for steam pipes. Foam would work just as well.

    It is really hard for drain lines to freeze as houses use a lot of water. Even if you are flushing 5C well water down the drain, it takes a lot of heat loss for it to freeze. The heat loss through a plastic pipe is just not enough for it to happen before it gets to the tank.

  7. Kye Ford||#7

    If you are worried about freezing, just get 4x8 sheets of 2" XPS, break them in half , into 2 2x8 sheets and install over the pipe. I do this frequently when connecting sewer laterals to sewer man holes and the laterals are a little shallow or run underneath paved areas where there is less frost protection. It's cheap insurance.

  8. Trevor Lambert||#8

    Where I live, the frost depth is 3-4 feet, which is below pretty much every septic drain. I've never heard of anyone insulating the drain, and I've never heard of one freezing. My old house had a drain that was about 2 feet below grade, was there for at least 50 years without issue, including entire winters without use. My current house has a drain less than a foot below grade, covered mostly by pea gravel which probably is close to R0. The lid of the tank is covered only by a dusting of sand. No problems so far through two winters.

  9. DCCONTRAIRARIAN||#9

    几年前,在“极地涡流”中,有关于化粪池冻结的广泛故事。

    The reason you don't read much about septic systems freezing is that if it happens often it's a high priority to fix it.

    It is common to insulate above water pipes when they can't be buried below the frost line. The rule of thumb I've heard is a foot of dirt equals an inch of foam. You should go a foot out horizontally for every inch of foam.

  10. James Stufano||#10

    假设您有一个新的化粪池,并且有时间隔离管道,为什么不拿出便宜的保险并按照某些人建议做。如果您看回答,有一些明智的细节,它们背后的数学回答与“哦,我有这个或那个,我从来没有发生过”

    我要感谢DETAIEDL的答复。我想知道大多数冻结的漏水量是否在滴水之类的漏水之类的漏水中?我敢肯定,有人会说只是修复泄漏,但是可能会有一段时间像将财产更改为vrbo,租户不会说些什么 - 只是举个例子,读者必须考虑自己的。从我阅读的内容来看,如果您有冻结,这是一个非常讨厌的事件,很昂贵且耗时。我认为回头看,有人会因为不采取廉价的隔热步骤而踢自己。

  11. Walter Ahlgrim||#11

    How deep will the pipe be and what is the depth of your local frost line?

    Do you have a septic contractor selected yet?

    通常,您可以在Craig的列表中以非常低的成本形成二手泡沫板。

    If your soils is that shallow septic will be a challenge finding a good local contractor and listening to him is a good bet.

    Walta

  12. Expert Member
    Malcolm Taylor||#12

    James,

    That's always been the dilemma: You want the pipe to the septic tank as shallow as you can get it so that the outlet leading to the field stays high, and the runs are at their correct depth. Less so now that most systems are pumped, and the tank can be any depth you want.

    Use 1 1/2" thick 24" wide foam directly above the pipe. Consider getting borate treated stock if ants are a problem there. It does loose its effectiveness over time, but helps keep them at bay for a while.

  13. Expert Member
    Zephyr7||#13

    +1 for using reclaimed foam here if you choose to insulate the pipe. You could even use the extra cheap reclaimed stuff that has damage — it’s going to be buried so who cares how it looks? Save some money and use cheap reclaimed XPS here.

    我不购买“化粪池系统需要氧气才能正常工作”。如果被埋葬,那么从大气中获得的氧气就不会真正得到太多。管道可能太长了,无法真正提供任何空气交换。我敢肯定,化粪池中发生的分解完全来自厌氧菌细菌,无论如何都不需要氧气即可生存。

    Bill

    1. Expert Member
      Malcolm Taylor||#14

      Bill,

      Yeah - most common septic systems are anaerobic. The only part that is dependant on depth to function effectively is the field. Ideally the tops of the infiltrator tubes should be around 12" below grade, allowing around 1/3rd of the effluent to diffuse upwards and evaporate.

  14. James Stufano||#15

    FYI - My septic consisting of a low boy tank and reserve field are installed by escavator based on my site engineer. My septic it not a DIY project.

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