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我的水力辐射热系统可以保存吗?

SkierPage2|Posted inMechanicalson

你好!我在这里读了很多帖子和论文,他们说服了我水力辐射地板加热不是最好的方法。但是,如果您已经有一个辐射地板加热系统怎么办?

2006年作为of a major remodel of a two-story 2,300 square foot house in the San Francisco Bay Area (climate zone 3), I spent a lot to go low carbon. To summarize what the subcontractor came up with: Solamax solar thermal collector tubes on the roof would heat three domestic hot water tanksandalso heat the storage tank for a two-manifold multi-zone hydronic radiant floor heating. As backup for cloudy days, a Unico Unichiller RC air-water heat pump would heat our domestic hot water and provide radiant heating. Twelve pumps, two flat plate heat exchangers, lots of Tekmar and Taco controllers, endless pipes and wires.

它从来没有起作用。充其量,在夏季中旬,我们可以免费享受无尽的烫割热水浴。到冬天,太阳能热力将难以提供热水,更不用说空间加热了。太阳能热环破裂了,我得到了3,800美元的估计来修复它。显然是浪费金钱(最好添加更多的太阳能光伏面板)。取而代之的是,我们在最后一个DHW坦克中使用了电动加热器作为热水。我们只有两个人,所以还不错。

热泵从来没有用来提供家用热水,但是它能够为辐射的加热环提供125°F的水,对于一些冬季,我们享受了舒适的区域加热和温暖的地板。哇!Unfortunately the contractor set the radiant heating system to call for a boiler temperature of 130°F, so the first winter the heat pump ran 24 hours a day (cue Scotty of Star Trek voice “Cap’n, she’s doing all she can, she simply cannae produce any moor heat!”). Maybe that’s why after three years the heat pump required $1000 repairs every winter until I stopped throwing money away. We’ve made do with portable space heaters the last few winters, which isn’t comfortable.

因此,这是一个设计不佳的一次性一次性系统,但它是零碳(我们有一些太阳能光伏,并为可再生电网付费)。我的问题是要安装什么来替换它。我将要订购三菱无管道的迷你切片,以加热和冷却我们的客厅。如果运行良好,我可以将其扩展到另一个外部单元和另外四个室内单元,以覆盖大部分房屋。我仍然必须在两个浴室中使用空间加热器。

I had a working radiant floor heating system呢我只需要无碳的热源。令我惊讶的是,这是如此困难,在美国似乎很少。Daikin Altherma在美国不可用。桑登(Sanden)可以使您使用其二氧化碳热水器进行空间加热,但我不确定现有的外部管道将损坏的热泵额定为饮用水。请记住,我在加利福尼亚温带,温度在冬季只能降至50秒,很少冻结过夜。

尽管我认为在我们的DHW坦克中运行脱衣舞加热器并不是一笔不错的费用,但我想知道我是否可以/应该将DHW和太空加热结合起来。似乎没有火箭科学。空气水热泵将热水送回。将其流入一个大型DHW储罐中,要么直接饮用,要么通过DHW坦克中的线圈循环。然后在水箱中有一个辐射加热线圈,以加热空间。我认为您可以在欧洲购买此类合并的空间和水泵系统,但是在美国,HVAC安装程序来自火星,水管工来自金星。

Another wrinkle is our modest need for space cooling. Every few years it’s hot enough to want to cool our house. The Unico heat pump could be switched to produced chilled water. I’m aware of the cautions about condensation and mold, but just to run some tepid water through the floor seems like a no-brainer; however, the Tekmar/Taco controls are all set up for radiant heating, not cooling. Does anyone make radiant heating system controllers that understand cooling as well as heating? Or is this a hopeless endeavor?

感谢您的建议!我很乐意付钱给顾问来弄清楚这一点,北加州有什么好的吗?

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答复

  1. GBA编辑
    马丁·霍拉迪(Martin Holladay)||#1

    Skier,
    得知您很遗憾的是,您陷入了一堆小偷之外,被抢劫了。欢迎来到GBA。

    听起来您花了数万美元用于从未正常工作的不适当的硬件上。

    If any GBA readers wonder which articles might have saved Skier from his fate, here is a list:

    “太阳能热力真的真的已经死了”

    “关于辐射地板的一切”

    “空对水热泵”

    我想不出任何理由为什么要挽救辐射地板的热分配系统,但是如果这样做,请替代您的选择:1。安装天然气锅炉或2.平衡高能量使用和更多的PV。

    如果我是你,我该怎么办?安装一些无管的迷你底漆,并将其称为教训。

    I hope you will become an active member of the GBA community so that you can share your experience with other homeowners who may be tempted down the path you took.

  2. Expert Member
    Akos||#2

    Skier,

    适当地进行辐射热是一件很棒的事情,我不会那么容易放弃它。

    我要做的是找到一个了解辐射的人并删除上一个系统的所有垃圾,控件,泵和坦克。对于一个两个级别的房屋,您唯一应该拥有的是两个恒温器​​和两个泵或一个泵和两个区域阀。我的两分钱是家用热水应该是自己的。如果您不喜欢静电热量,当您现有的坦克死亡时,请获得热泵热水器。

    如果你想保持舒适的辐射,best way to go is as Martin suggested, add in an electric boiler.

    如果您担心用电量,则可以在主层进行更大的迷你拆分,并将其用作主热源,而Hydronic构成剩余的剩余时间,以均匀地拆分房屋中的温度。

    Best of luck.

    1. Trevor Lambert||#3

      DHW和地板加热中可以组合,但需要仔细的计划和考虑。您必须尺寸尺寸的热水器,以使空间加热负荷是整体容量的一小部分。我同意在大多数情况下没有什么意义。否则,您很可能会偶尔得到卢克温暖的淋浴或浴缸。

      我认为混合系统有一些优点,您有两个热水器。但是,您不仅仅是一个用于供暖的空间,而是用于DHW,您还将其串联。两个加热器之间的空间加热。因此,加热器2的所有水都可以用于DHW,加热器2的水已被加热器1预热。这会导致DHW容量大幅增加(当空间加热尚未运行时),或DHW的恢复时间急剧减少(当空间加热运行时)。

  3. Jon R||#4

    If you still want to use radiant, you should investigate the Chiltrix heat pump.

    1. Jesse Trinque||#5

      我认真考虑了童。看起来像一个很棒的单位。我有光芒四射,尽管我想尝试一下Chilltrix,但由于不熟悉的Skier提到的原因,我的HVAC承包商使我不知所措。至少明天我死了,我的妻子将能够打电话给某人并让他们为锅炉提供服务,我并不相信在热泵上。对于“类似”的钱,我最终使用了高效的Viessmann Vitodens 200锅炉。该锅炉令人难以置信,高级控件使系统非常简单和优雅。唯一的问题是他们还没有弄清楚如何从屋顶上的面板中制作丙烷!我们喜欢到目前为止的光芒四射,我的父母拥有富士通热泵,尽管它们效率高且具有成本效益,但毫无疑问,我们的系统更舒适,甚至大多数人都会说,辐射地板不适合有效的信封,但我不同意。过度杀伤力 - 也许,但是我正在用80-85度的水加热我的房子,而70度的回流水像疯了一样凝结,希望整年在我们的400加仑的丙烷中制造出来!

  4. AlexPoi||#6

    北欧(海事地热,加拿大公司)将空气出售给水热泵。您可以尝试与他们联系,以查看是否可能进行替换并值得。

  5. Expert Member
    达娜·多塞特(Dana Dorsett)||#7

    >“我将要订购三菱无管的迷你切片,以加热和冷却我们的客厅。如果它运行良好,我可以用另一个外部单元和另外四个室内单元扩展,以覆盖大部分房屋。”

    Be very careful about sizing the indoor units proportionally to the load when going with a multi-split. Unlike single zone mini-splits on multi-zone system the heads don't really modulate, and when any one zone is active there is refrigerant going to the others, even when "off", with no blowers active. On rooms with very loads & ludicrously oversized head capacity just the excess refrigerant can overheat/overcool the room when a more appropriately sized head is serving another zone on the same compressor. The better solution is often to go with a single zone (and thus modulating) mini-duct cassette serving 2-4 rooms, tweaking the room to room temperature balance with the duct design and balancing vanes.

    对于任何供暖/冷却解决方案,即使对于单区域的迷你切片,逐个区域,按区域负载计算进行室内,逐个区域进行。调制范围不是无限的,只有一些小型切片,只有3:1,如果无法通过负载调制,则无法提供适合负载尺寸的舒适性和效率。假设有合理的调制范围,一点点的过大尺寸就可以了,但是如果可以的话,将线保持在1.5倍(不超过)。

    1. Jon R||#8

      >只有3:1

      Considering the indoor unit CFM needed for AC comfort (ie latent removal, important in most areas), some are more like 1.3:1.

      1. Expert Member
        达娜·多塞特(Dana Dorsett)||#9

        In the SF Bay area latent loads are usually negative.

    2. SkierPage2||#10

      Thanks so much for your comment. The local Mitsubishi Diamond Contractor proposed a MLZ-KP18NA ceiling cassette because of appearance and easier installation; for some reason it *requires* a multi-zone heat pump, so MXZ-3C24NA.

      My living room is 380 sq feet but we usually open sliding doors so it opens onto 480 sq feet of dining/kitchen/office with cathedral ceilings. Unfortunately I can't find the Title 24 energy report from my remodel. My impression is the ceiling unit's 18,000 Btu/hr cooling and 21,600 heating is way overkill for the living room alone but not wrong for the entire space. I could delay the minisplit while I try to find someone independent to do the load calculations (and explain "latent loads" to me)... it seems none of you experts in cyberspace are in Northern California to take my money (!).

      1. Expert Member
        达娜·多塞特(Dana Dorsett)||#12

        我同意,对于1.5吨冷却和21,600 btu/hr的加热的空间和位置的数量是过大的。当使用多切割压缩机时,过度杀伤甚至更糟,因为盒式盒子不会调节。安装程序不感兴趣地引用安装更为标准的东西所需的木工。

        它们更大,可以说是丑陋的,但是KA系列天花板盒具有不错的调制范围,并且可以适当尺寸。但是,由于它们不适合16英寸O.C.托运框架,这意味着安装它们需要一些木工。KA系列都可以将所有油门返回到〜3K @ +47f:

        http://meus1.mylinkdrive.com/files/SLZ-KA15NA-SUZ-KA15NA_Submittal_GOLD.pdf

        http://meus1.mylinkdrive.com/files/SLZ-KA12NA-SUZ-KA12NA_Submittal.pdf

        http://meus1.mylinkdrive.com/files/SLZ-KA09NA-SUZ-KA09NA_Submittal.pdf

        至少运行免费赠品在线手册j(例如:loadcalc.net或coolcalc.com),对空气紧密度和R值进行积极的假设(否则它们的尺寸将超过1.5倍),以获取操作,这是最有意义的。

  6. motoguy128||#11

    Just one thought. I wonder if the Unico could be piped to the solar system directly. that way it's efficiency would be much higher since in heating more it makes cold water that the collectors could push more heat into. I think that chiller can operate up to 130F, so could make DHW OK.

    冷却器的效率比带热量高2-6倍。

    我认为它可以起作用。它可能缺乏与现实世界能力和高峰需求相匹配的存储空间。

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