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Community and Q&A

Exterior wall assembly for Minneapolis

tech_walleye| Posted inGeneral Questionson

Hello, I will be building hopefully soon and have been considering what I should be doing for exterior insulation.

I have a double sill plate and (3) large sliding doors and lots of windows in this home, so I would like to get some exterior insulation to help with the thermal bridging.

My thoughts are this

Stucco
1/2″gap
zip r-sheathing (R6 or R9) Not sure which one
2″ CC Spray foam
Fill the rest of cavity with batting or blown in insulation.
Drywall

I like the idea of the zip system to make it easy to install but am open to other exterior insulation ideas.

From everything I have read not have the “proper” amount of exterior insulation with the Zip R6 is a not a problem as long as I put the 2″ of Closed Cell on the interior side of the sheathing.

Thoughts?

My builder proposed:
Stucco
1/2″ Air Gap
2 layers building wrap
plywood sheathing
1/2 – 1 inch of Spray foam
其他填充击球
Poly Vapor barrier
Drywall.

I really do not like his proposal as I think you will have a condensing surface on the inside of the sheathing which could get the batting wet and no place to dry.

Thanks for the input.

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Replies

  1. Aedi||#1

    You are correct in worrying about your builder's proposal, their assembly is extremely ill advised and will not work. The <1" of spray foam is basically useless from an insulating perspective, but is an air and vapor barrier. Since it is so thin, it will get cold enough for condensation to form on its interior surface. This is bad in the best of cases, but since he uses a layer of interior polyethylene, that water will not be able to dry to the interior and will be trapped in the assembly. It would not take long for mold and rot to follow. Also what's with the double layer of building wrap?

    Your proposed assembly will work, though there might be a better solution.

    In general, I am not a big fan of flash and batt. While the spray foam is better performing than batt insulation, the thermal bridging of the studs severely undermines that. Best case, using 2" of closed cell spray foam adds about R4, on a whole assembly level. Since you are using Zip-R, you don't really need the air sealing benefits of foam either.

    As you correctly note, R9 exterior foam is not sufficient to prevent excessive condensation, so the layer of closed-cell spray foam is necessary. However, Zip-R is also available in R12 panels, so you might be want to look into that. Alternately, you could use a couple layers of regular foam or mineral wool boards on the exterior in place of Zip-R.

    Edit: Modified this post after re-reading OP and realizing he had already noted concerns.

  2. GBA Editor
    Martin Holladay||#2

    Tech,
    Your assembly is better than the assembly suggested by your builder, but your planned WRB (the Zip R) might not meet code. Most building codes require two layers of building paper or asphalt felt under stucco. (Check with your local building official on this point.) Building paper is cheap, so you might want to install two layers of building paper on the exterior side of the Zip R -- after taping the Zip R seams, of course.

    1. Aedi||#3

      I didn't realize that two layers of building paper was a common requirement in codes. I don't know much about building codes in Minneapolis, but I took the time to find the relevant section in the 2018 IRC (2510.6):

      Water resistive barriers shall be installed as required over wood based sheathing and shall include a water resistive vapor permeable barrier with a performance at least equal to two layers water-resistive barrier complying with ASTME2556, type I. The individual layers shall be installed independently such that each layer provides a separate continuous pane and any flashing intended to drain to the water resistive barrier is directed between layers.

      Exceptions:

      1.Where the water-resistive barrier that is applied over wood-based sheathing has a water resistance equal to or greater than that of a water-resistive barrier complying with ASTM E2556, Type II and is separated from the stucco by an intervening, substantially nonwater-absorbing layer or drainage space.

      2.Where the water-resistive barrier is applied over wood-based sheathing in Climate Zone 1A, 2A or 3A, a ventilated air space shall be provided between the stucco and water-resistive barrier.

      I believe our friend's proposed assembly falls under the first exception, and makes good sense from a building science perspective.

      我只需要刷新myself on this, so for everyone who is curious: The purpose of the double layer of building paper is to create a drainage gap between the stucco and the sheathing. It ensures that if the stucco remains bonded to the first layer of building paper as it dries, it pulls away from the second, keeping the sheathing from being in direct contact with a reservoir cladding. It is a clever, cheap way to keep an assembly safe, but when there is an air gap (edit: between the stucco and WRB) already in the assembly it is not necessary.

      Building science corp, as always, has some good resources on the topic:
      https://www.buildingscience.com/documents/reports/rr-0105-brick-stucco-housewrap-and-building-paper/view
      https://www.buildingscience.com/documents/insights/bsi-029-stucco-woes-the-perfect-storm
      https://www.buildingscience.com/documents/building-science-insights/bsi-102-coming-stucco-pocalypse

  3. GBA Editor
    Martin Holladay||#4
  4. Expert Member
    Dana Dorsett||#5

    There is no mention of the stud depth, and it matters from a wintertime dew point control perspective.

    >"I have a double sill plate and (3) large sliding doors and lots of windows in this home, so I would like to get some exterior insulation to help with the thermal bridging."

    Thermal bridging? The thermal bridging of the framing is "in the noise", probably smaller than the rounding errors in the thermal performance of three large glass sliders and lots of windows. Spending the ZIP-R and closed cell foam money on higher performance glass is the better investment, even in a 2x6/R19 type wall.

    Take the time to model this using BeOpt or some other performance tool to get a handle on what upgrades make a meaningful difference, and which don't:

    https://beopt.nrel.gov/home

  5. GBA Editor
    Peter Yost||#6

    In the builder-proposed assembly it is true that the interior surface of the 1-inch foam flash will be the first condensing surface if the rest of the cavity is air-permeable insulation BUT if the 6 ml polyethylene is the interior vapor retarder (and there is an interior air barrier--either the PE or air tight drywall), the PE as a solid Class I vapor retarder will not pass enough moisture for significant condensation on the first condensing surface.

    Yes, the PE will also not accommodate much if any interior drying of the assembly, but for many years, Canadian builders have been detailing interior PE as both a vapor retarder and air barrier with success. The builder assembly would not be my first choice, and I would bump the 1-inch flash to a 2-inch one, but I bet it would work so long as there is that interior air barrier.

    Peter

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